Alex Hunter

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Ryan: Were there any moments for you while traveling that you kind of view your life as “Before and After” because they were just so profoundly changing?

Alex: It’s a great question. I would say when I got over my fear of flying.

Ryan: My guest today is Alex Hunter. Alex is the host of Attaché, an award-winning travel show that “gets you in, out, and around some of the world’s greatest cities.” The show, which you can watch on YouTube, focuses on culture, etiquette, food tips, transportation, and more. It is by far one of the best travel series I’ve ever stumbled across on YouTube and honestly has proven far more relevant to my interests and way of traveling than most professional network or cable travel TV shows.

I haven’t been subtle about how much Anthony Bourdain has influenced me, but I would be lying if I said Alex didn’t make a lasting impression on how I approach travel and the way I interact with the world as well. In fact, the intro to my weekly radio show on WHUP, Global Garage, was directly inspired by Attaché.

In addition to Attaché, Alex has published an accompanying book. He also travels around the world as a keynote speaker and hosts his own aviation and travel podcast called Layovers. Alex was also a part of the team that launched Virgin America.

What song reminds Alex of home? We’re about to find out. Let’s make a mixtape!

[Intro music by Scotty Sandwich]

Ryan: Alex Hunter. Thank you so much for joining me on this season of let’s make a mixtape. We’re of course talking about home this season. You picked Jack Johnson’s appropriately titled track, Home. Alex, tell me, why did you pick this song for the mixtape?

Alex: Yeah, I know, it’s a little on the nose, isn’t it?

Ryan: Hey, hey, you know, someone’s gotta do it, right?

Alex: Yeah, yeah, you know, it’s a- I know Jack Johnson’s not everybody’s cup of tea, and I have mixed feelings about him. But I saw him live recently, actually in London, my wife’s a huge fan and I was sort of dragged by the ears to go and, you know, he put on a hell of a show. And, I think this song kind of resonated with me because I have a really nebulous idea of home.

Yeah. I think there’s a line in the song that says “home is wherever we are, if there’s love here too.” And that really got to me because. People, a lot of people ask me like, “Hey, where are you from?” And I know it’s kind of a dangerous question these days, but, I like being asked it and I like to try and find a way of asking people in a kind of way that they’re comfortable with, because I’m fascinated by people’s provenance, but I grew up all over.

I’m the son of immigrants. I’m an immigrant myself. I’m a nomad and an expat. So home is kind of a- it’s not a place. There’s no place I can say, well, “that’s obviously home to me.” And that’s kind of an isolating feeling sometimes. When you, when you, you know, most people, most people- is that fair?

Yeah, I would say most people have like a, “Oh, well, my hometown is X, my parents grew up there” or, you know, I grew up there and it’s kind of when I’m, when I say I’m going from home for the holidays, that’s where I’m going. But I’ve never had a place where has been physically home for me.

You know, I was born in Virginia, but grew up in California, moved to Hong Kong when I was 10. But my parents were British. So I always felt like a little bit of an outsider. I went to boarding school. I went back, I bounced all over the world and I’ve never really had that sense of- like the physical sense of home.

But then, you know, it just happens, it just home feels like where I’m happy, you know, and where my- now it’s like where it doesn’t- you know, I could live on the dark side of the moon, but if my kids were there, well, that’s home, it’s wherever they are. And, I thought that song kind of nailed that sentiment of, it doesn’t really matter what the physical place is or if it’s a mansion or just a small apartment, it doesn’t really matter.

It doesn’t really matter. It’s who’s there and how it feels that I appreciate it about that song.

Ryan: I feel like it was a very apt pick. Tell me about your childhood all over the place. What was that like? I mean, as a kid dealing with the concept of home and moving around.

Alex: Yeah, it was was not something I-, well, actually I was going to say, it’s not something I’d ever been prepped for, but that’s just nonsense because, like I said, my parents are British, but the first 10 years of my life, all I really knew was suburban California. But then every summer we would go to England to see my grandparents who live in a 450 year old house in the middle of nowhere, like with all their own rituals and traditions into like a little California kid.

I’m like, this is just weird as hell. I love it, but it’s so fricking weird. So having that contrast, and then when I was 10, my dad was like, “Hey, I’ve been offered a job in Hong Kong.” And my brothers and I were like, “absolutely not. No, fricking no, it’s little league season, I’m going for the home run record. No, no way.” My dad’s like, “what if I buy you a Nintendo?” Like, “Oh, we’ll just start packing up the house right now.”

And it was weird because we actually didn’t even pack up the house. We just left California for the summer to go back to England, like we always did, except we never went back to California.

The next place we went to was Hong Kong. And it was like this yeah. Going from- the town I grew up in in California, maybe had like 50,000 people back then to this futuristic, crowded, noisy megalopolis that had just overwhelmed me in every possible sense. And my parents were like, “this is home now. Get used to it.”

Ryan: And a completely polar experience. I’m assume, I mean, watching the second video that you did on Hong Kong.

Alex: Yeah. Everything was different. I couldn’t even read the languages. I couldn’t read the any of that. I don’t know what they expected me to feel, but it was humbling.

It was humbling in a good way to have that, like, you don’t look like anybody, you’re the minority there, you have to adapt. And not only was it like, you know, the people that, that were there originally, Hong Kong Chinese, but also like my neighbors and my classmates were Australian and Canadian and from New Zealand. And so these are all people I’ve never had anything like that before in my life.

And it was a definite throw-you-in-at-the-deep-end kind of thing. But, as you mentioned in the latest episode of the show, I love that place.

I’ve loved that place so much. It’s probably the closest to home that I’ve ever had, at least emotionally, I mean, I don’t, I don’t belong there at all, but it’s a wonderful place.

Ryan: It was really interesting in that episode, you’re talking about how you travel, everywhere, all the time. But that is one place where against all odds, you don’t feel like an outsider. And I thought that was just a really interesting kind of insight that you’ve had there.

Alex: And I wish I could explain that, what it is about Hong Kong, because really, in all honesty, I lived there for one year full time, and then I went to boarding school in the UK.

And I was, so I was back living in Hong Kong, maybe, I don’t know, 12 weeks a year. And maybe that was it. Maybe that’s, you know, it was like, this is where I have my vacations. This is fun. This is easy. But then like after school, I worked there. Something about it clicked with me. The lifestyle, the topography, the geography, the scenery, I don’t know, the etiquette, the food, the language, Cantonese is to me is just a beautiful language. I love hearing it.

The art, like Hong Kong cinema is such a big presence in my life. And we, we absolutely paid homage/ripped-off so many Hong Kong movies in that episode that you’re referring to. And it just, I don’t know what it is about the place. It’s just magnetic. And when I hear Cantonese on the street, here in the UK or anywhere really, I just want to talk to this person. “I’m sort of from Hong Kong,” you know, and they’re like, “okay, cool.”

But it is, yeah, there’s something about that place. I used to go two or three times a year before the pandemic just to be there and live. And I don’t feel like I need to do anything touristy. I don’t have to- I just live and relax and feel good. Happy.

Ryan: It definitely reflects in, in that most recent video that you, I mean, beautiful, I mean, beyond, I think it transcends the stereotypical travel vlog production. Like it was, it definitely felt like, I think the closest thing YouTube will ever get to Anthony Bourdain.

Alex: Oh, that’s really kind. That’s all Greg.

I have to, you know, Greg, Greg Barnes, who does the show with me is a, He’s a genius.

Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, amazing, videographer. I think done a few music videos.

Alex: Yeah. He’s done a lot of music videos. He’s a gifted filmmaker, a- gifted makes it sound like he was just born with the talent. He’s worked hard to hone his craft to be an incredible filmmaker.

Ryan: It’s been amazing watching the show evolve to into what it is today. It’s been a wonderful progression. Y’all have definitely worked hard and very much deserving, congratulations on your third Travel Vlogger of the Year award.

Alex: Thank you, yeah I was very surprised. It was, it was a lot of fun to do that.

Ryan: You talked a little bit about etiquette growing up in Hong Kong, do you feel like that was foundational to your experiences traveling? I know in your, in your videos, you’re very honed in on etiquette.

Was your experience with that kind of drastic difference in etiquette in Hong Kong compared to a more Western style of life? Was that foundational, in that sense?

Alex: That’s a great question. Yeah, I would say so. My dad worked for a Hong Kong based company in California and every now and then he would bring me to a dinner or something, almost invariably at one of San Francisco’s phenomenal Chinese restaurants.

And probably, in fact, now that I have three kids, I can say without a shadow of a doubt, told me these things so I didn’t embarrass him. He taught me “do this, don’t do this. And you know, some of the food is going to be new to you. Some of the smells, some of the ways people eat, but that’s fine. Just because we do it one way here, doesn’t mean everybody around the world does it the same.”

And when we moved there, there was still a lot of that- it’s a very kind of social corporate world out there. And then as an adult I participated in that, but my parents definitely taught me that when in Rome, you abide by the emperor’s etiquette and I think that became really important to me as a traveler and something I’ve instilled in my kids as well. I don’t care if it’s weird. I don’t care if it’s unusual. But that’s how we do it.

And we want to be respectful as travelers and at least try. No one is ever gonna go “how dare you” if you can’t use chopsticks elegantly in Japan. Of course they’re not, but they will appreciate the effort. And I think, yeah, foundational is a lovely way of putting it.

I think maybe I over- I get slightly, in some of the episodes, but I think it is important because now more than ever, you see influencer jerks like myself making, making massive social faux pas and making people around them uncomfortable. I don’t think that that’s excusable really.

Ryan: I think the first moment I stumbled on Attaché was, I think we were planning a trip to Amsterdam and Paris and I was looking for a good travel guide for both of those and everything that I was coming- all of the travel vloggers were just yelling and screaming with their selfie sticks and it felt so abrasive.

And then I stumbled on Attaché and you’re just so respectful, just a calm voice well thought through. You’re not the main character, the city is the main character. And I think that’s something that really stands out with what you’re doing with travel vlogging. And so it was absolutely fresh to see. And I’m glad that exists because it feels like you’re actually respecting the city and the people around you while you’re filming. You’re not just making a bunch of noise like a tourist trying to get content.

Alex: Well, I mean, that’s incredibly kind of you to say. I’m also 45 years old, no one wants to see me. No one wants to see me at all. They want to see the city. The city is invariably going to be more attractive than me. But it’s the philosophy we’ve had from the beginning is that there are some great content creators out there who I want to see them as much as whatever it is they’re doing, but the genesis of the show was an app that I was building for myself.

I still to this day, I travel a lot and I give speeches, and I was doing 50 or 60 of those a year years and I would end up in Tallinn in Estonia, in the taxi

Ryan: I love Tallinn.

Alex: That’s a great city, massively underrated.

Ryan: I just went there in December and just was blown away. It was beautiful. I was there on Christmas day.

Alex: Work took me there and I just, I fell in love with it. It’s a beautiful, beautiful city. Hugely underrated. And going through a little bit of a tough time at the moment, that whole region.

But, yeah it’s a great, great city. And I spent a lot of time in that part of the world and I would be in the taxi from the airport to the hotel, then crap, How do you say “thank you” in Estonian, do you tip or is that hugely offensive? I was like, there’s a lot of beautiful content out there that showing these places off, but no one tells you that stuff.

And so I started writing it all down and putting it in an app. Around that time, my brother Will introduce me to Anthony Bourdain’s stuff and I watched a Hong Kong episode. That’s because that’s what I judge everything. That’s my barometer for like, is this legit or not? I watched it. I was like, “Oh, this is great, we should do something like that on YouTube for the practical side of things.” And that was the essence of the show, was to scratch my own itch, really.

Ryan: It’s profoundly helpful. It’s what you need to know. And I’m such a public transportation nerd when I travel, I love that shit. And if I’m traveling somewhere and you have a video about it, I’ll watch it and that’s how I get into the city. I love a city that you can get to downtown from a metro, super quick, super easy, from the airport, it’s the best.

Alex: Me too. Oh, me too. What’s your

Ryan: I’m such a fuckin’ nerd about that shit.

Alex: No, no, no. I think it’s invaluable. I think it’s invaluable and I think we can be real and say it’s not the-maybe it is for you, but it’s not the best- the most exciting stuff to talk about in the context of like, yeah, “I’m going to Barcelona.” “Well, hold on, let me tell you about the airport train first.”

But you know, it’s valuable and my goal with the show has always been to help people unlock a city on their own terms. Because if you try and cover everything a city can offer or a destination, you’re always going to disappoint somebody. But if you just give them the keys to the city and say, here’s how you get around, go nuts, go to that museum or, on the complete other end of the spectrum, that museum, and you’re, you’re going to have a great time because you’re doing it your way.

Ryan: That’s such a great travel philosophy. Like when I first started traveling on my own, I think the first time I was on a plane, I was three years old, my parent, like we traveled all the time all around. Amazing. But the first time I like was really traveling on my own. I was like making itineraries and like planning everything out.

And then, my wife- I planned a trip to DC and it was just way too packed and she’s like, we’re not doing this. We can’t do this. I was like, all right, let’s have what we want to achieve. And then like, we’ll make our must-do’s, our like-to-do’s and then like fill in the blanks.

And so I love having the keys to the city and then we’re able to explore and figure things out on our own and that just our traveling has been just amazing since taking on that philosophy of make time to get to know the city or the location and don’t overbook or over-plan.

Alex: What a joy that you’ve been able to find somebody who you travel well with.

I think that is so rare. And so, especially if you love travel and have been traveling as much as you have, it’s extraordinary to me how ritualistic we become in our own travel kind of protocol, and it makes no sense.

It makes sense to us as individuals, but then you try and explain it to somebody about why you do certain things in certain ways. And they’re like, “I don’t- what?” But finding somebody who you kind of interlock with, or at least compliment in your travels, I mean, that is priceless.

Ryan: Or who will agree to go to something that could be completely insane. Like we went to Berlin in May of last year for music festival and we’re filling in some time around that and I found this place, it’s an art collective and they have this animatronic, very industrial horror comedy production called Monsterkabinett. It was our first night in Berlin and we went and it must have been the most Berlin thing that I think we could have done.

It was just so wholesomely weird and representative of that city. And I would not sacrifice that moment in my trip to Berlin for anything, that was just perfect.

Alex: I love that. I love that. I think that that type of thing, that type of risk-taking that type of- and I think you’re right that, well, you said a moment ago about having the flexibility of itinerary, I think a rigid itinerary is the death of travel because it removes the chance for spontaneity and spontaneity is where those moments that you’ll never forget often occur.

Ryan: The first time I got the real international travel bug, my company I work for is social media marketing company and most every year we try to go on a mystery trip, which is: they give us clues for about four months, six to four months, and then we show up at the airport at a given time and then we go somewhere as a company and it’s an incredible perk. And one year we went to Paris and it was my first time going back to Europe since I was a kid when we went to Germany.

And, you know, Paris! The first night was weird, jet lagged, kind of in the touristy area, people doing touristy things. I was like, I can’t do this. And so I ended up going off with one of my coworkers. We started the morning, we went to a coffee place that is run by a British expat, amazing coffee place, Loustic, I think one of the best places you can find an iced coffee. But it seems to have had like this community built, especially around other expats. Just a really cool spot. Had a wonderful conversation with him, wandered to the Born Bad record store, did some records shopping, went to a wine bar, did a flight of wine, went to a restaurant.

And we were just chatting with the waiter and like, “Oh, where’s a good place to go get some jazz after this.” So we went to a jazz club. It was like a currently a scheduled show. And then after that was the community jam. So we got in for the community jam and we’re sitting next to this woman who is from Martinique and she busted out some purse hooch, some Martinique liquor. And was just like, “here, have some.” I was like, “yeah, sure.” And I was like a few Absinthe Sazerac’s deep and then she jumps up and goes and sings and it was just those- you can’t plan for those. There’s no way.

Alex: There’s no way. And if you have a rigid itinerary, you remove all possibility for those moments to happen.

I couldn’t agree with you more, and you’ll never forget any of that as long as you live.

Ryan: No, exactly. I think that was one of the turning point moments for me. Were there any moments for you while traveling that you kind of view your life as “Before and After” because they were just so profoundly changing?

Alex: It’s a great question. I would say when I got over my fear of flying.

Ryan: Wow, okay. Cause you’re, you come from a family of Royal Air Force, correct. And then you’ve been- So tell me a little bit about that then.

Alex: I was, I had a- well, how do I tell this story in a quick way? When I was six or seven years old, whatever, however old you are in the second grade, my uncle worked in Guatemala and I went down there with my family and to cut a long story short, I had a gun held to my head by some- they’re trying to rob- they did rob us.

I was like beaten around a little bit. And I was like, “Oh, that was weird.” And then it turns out that you can get PTSD as a seven year old. And it manifested itself like nine years later when my father and I were flying from Hong Kong to Tokyo and we flew through a typhoon. It was like end of the world stuff. And I thought, “Oh, I’m going to die.”

And that kind of unlocked like years trauma and I developed a severe fear of flying. The cruel irony is that not only was I then and still remain an absolute turbo aviation dork, like you cannot get much worse- I mean, that’s a window from a 747 behind me.

I was also a recreational pilot. So I flew happily by myself, but flying- it took a long time. And then when I started- I was part of the team that founded Virgin America, the airline. And I thought, “you know what, I’m going to be able to fly around the US for free whenever I want, I need to sort this out.” So I did, and from then on, like being free of any worry and just being able to focus exclusively on where I was going and then where I was not having to look at the calendar and go “three more days, two more days, one more day until I’m back in hell.” So that was pretty significant, I think, in unlocking the world for me, really.

Ryan: I mean, clearly, cause you’ve been, you’ve been all over.

Alex: Yeah. Yeah. And it was something I was quite proud of myself, frankly, for overcoming. And I admire anybody takes any kind of step towards overcoming a phobia, whatever it might be. So it was that for me, it was then like, I can reacquaint myself with the world and I haven’t stopped.

Ryan: And you’re helping acquaint others.

Alex: We’re certainly trying as best we can.

Ryan: Tying it a little bit back to home. Do you feel like, I mean, we’ve talked about how home is- it’s not a place. It’s an idea. Happiness. Do you feel like you are at home while you are traveling?

Alex: I, you know, okay, man, you’re nailing this question. I think it depends on where I am. I never feel further away from home when I’m without my kids. And I think that it took a while to kind of detach from that and go, look, you’re, you are away from them. They’re in good hands. So just enjoy where you are. Enjoy where you are or bring them with you, which I started doing from when they were very young.

And then it depends on where I am and what my responsibilities and obligations are while I’m there. But, I’m not good at not doing anything. And that’s something I’m really- like, I just went- three or four weeks ago, I went into the desert in the UAE just to do that. I didn’t tack it on to the end of a work trip or a filming trip. I went by myself and I just wanted to see what would happen.

It was amazing. It’s a place I’m very familiar with. And so I didn’t feel the need to go off and do all of the things that one is supposed to do in a new country. It was somewhere I felt so familiar and so comfortable and so relaxed that I could just be. And just go and eat at casual places and do whatever I wanted to do and that felt truly relaxing for the first time in a long time.

So did I feel at home? Probably not. No. But I did feel relaxed and able to kind of recharge a little bit.

Ryan: I get that. When I’m traveling, I feel like I want to get as much in as I can and I feel like I’m constantly moving, constantly going, again, I can’t not do things. So it’s hard to really get in that mindset of just be.

Alex: It’s little bit of a curse, I think. Especially if it’s somewhere where you’re like, “I’m not sure if I’m going to make it back here anytime soon.” You want to be like, but I think there’s so much, I’ve forced myself quite a few years ago to just, not “live like a local” because that sounds trite, but, just go to a coffee shop and, exactly like what you were describing with your Paris trip, where you’re just sort of- you’re seeing where the wind takes you, you start in a coffee shop and you watch the people come and go and you go, “Oh, that’s a different ritual here. That’s fascinating.” Or “this coffee is amazing.” And then maybe you strike up conversation or you walk past something and go “that looks interesting or that smells amazing” or whatever it is, you just sort of float through this, the destination or wherever you might be. I think when that happens exactly like you described with Paris, it’s very rare, but it’s incredibly powerful.

And I think that’s when I feel like I don’t belong here, I don’t live here, but I feel strangely in the flow of the city that I’m in.

Ryan: I, yeah, we were again, went to London for the first time in May before we went to Berlin and I wasn’t sure about London, I was like, “ah, maybe it’s going to be too much like New York.” I’m not a big fan of New York. I like visiting, but I don’t know.

I absolutely fell in love with London. And the coffee shop. I mean, talking about that, I love- part of our ritual when traveling is in the mornings we drink coffee and we want to try to find a coffee shop.

And the way I like to travel, I’ll mark a bunch of stuff on Google Maps and I’ll be like “where am I? Okay, what’s nearby? All right, mark that place off. Why did I mark it off? All right, let me go there. Cool. So there’s one of those. All right. Looking for coffee. This one’s close by. Let’s go.”

And it felt like – I think it was during the week – it felt like a coffee shop that was very much this is a place where the residents come, they have a community, they know the barista by name, and so Brittany and I just kind of sat in the corner drinking our coffee, just kind of observing, again, that just kind not to talk about the living like a local piece, but also that. It felt like we’re experiencing that everyday hum of life in the city.

And I think there’s- slow travel, I think, seems to be a buzzword, a trend that I feel like kind of fits that.

Alex: Yeah. I’m a big believer in that. I mean, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting to experience the uniqueness of a city and what it has to offer. Like there are certain things you feel like you want to experience in a city because that’s what maybe they’re famous for. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that at all. But I do feel a real attraction to exactly what you’re describing.

And not feeling like that is in any way a waste of time. Just sitting in a coffee shop for 90 minutes, two hours, whatever. It doesn’t really matter. And not going, “we should be doing things. We should be doing things.” We should be on the- No, no, no, no, no, no, no.”

It’s just, I think that balance is hard to find, but it’s worth, it’s worth striving for. I really believe that.

Ryan: Yeah, it’s a beautiful thing. And I think it’s good, good for the soul. If you’re able to do it, if you’re privileged enough to be able to travel and see the world, it really is.

I mean, I think Bourdain said something along the lines of, you know, you should travel. It’ll forget the exact quote, but I mean if everyone traveled and experienced the world in its many differences, I think we’d be a more harmonious place for sure.

“If I’m an advocate for anything, it’s to move. As far as you can, as much as you can. Across the ocean, or simply across the river. The extent to which you can walk in someone else’s shoes or at least eat their food, it’s a plus for everybody. Open your mind, get up off the couch, move.” – Anthony Bourdain

Alex: Yeah. And I agree that it is a privilege to be able to do it.

And it’s certainly not everybody’s cup of tea, but I think being pushed out of your comfort zone or put in an uncomfortable situation where you don’t speak the language or maybe you don’t even recognize the characters, the language is made up of, it can be a very good thing for us as a species.

I don’t purposely try and put myself in awkward situations, but I’m not going to avoid a situation because I think there’s the potential for it to be- I might not understand what they’re saying in the first go and that’s okay ’cause we’ll figure it out together and that’s fine.

And I think it’s very powerful, very powerful.

Ryan: Are there any recent- or speaking to traveling for Attaché, your recent travels, anything that’s pushed you out of your comfort zone that’s been empowering or changing?

Alex: I was just in, it’s not my favorite place in the whole wide world, but I was in Cannes, as in the film festival, I got back, uh, one o’clock this morning.

I’ll tell you what makes me feel uncomfortable, and then I’ll get back to the point of the story. Sure. I hate being in a place where I don’t know any of the language. I feel incredibly foolish. I feel uncomfortable and I feel almost a sense of disrespect, but I don’t think it’s disrespectful. I just- you can’t learn every language.

But my French is passable. My mother speaks fluent French. My grandfather spoke fluent French. When my mom and I want to have a private conversation, basically we’re like, we’re talking about somebody that’s in earshot, she’ll speak to me in French and I’ll answer in English.

I forced myself to really just only speak in French when I’m there. Don’t get me wrong. It’s not conversational or anything like that, but it’s enough to get by. And I forced myself and forced myself, and forced myself because I don’t like that sense of- I don’t speak a single word of Arabic except maybe “Thank you.” So going to the UAE, a lot of people speak English in the UAE and many, many other languages, but that makes me- it humbles me. I think it’s a really important feeling.

And I admire people like, all those polyglots on YouTube, Xiaoma and people like that, like who do it because they’re not doing the whole like, “Oh, surprise, I can speak your language.” They’re trying to establish some sort of rapport with people. We just filmed an episode and – you heard it here first – in Naples which is coming out imminently. I don’t know any Italian, so I was sitting on the plane, cramming, like, how do you say “can I please have a-“ point to the thing and just those few phrases to help you break the ice a little bit, I think are invaluable, but that’s when I feel most uncomfortable when I’m traveling.

Ryan: That’s what I’ve never- through school I’ve attempted Spanish. Took two years of French, took two semesters of Italian, it never really stuck with me. And I probably shot myself in the foot trying to tackle three Romantic languages and the like, but I try to learn the basics so that I can at least show that I tried, but man, it’s hard.

It’s uncomfortable for sure.

Alex: It is. I think- and I was talking to my taxi driver on the way back to the airport last night about this. And we were talking about why I know French and a little bit of French. I was asking him how one would say things and he was saying that the effort to just even try and start the conversation is so well received, it’s so appreciated in any- I think we’re, we’re the same when someone, you know, comes to us in English and you’re like, “I know this is uncomfortable. I know it’s hard. I’ve been in your shoes. Of course I’m going to try my very best to help you.”

Ryan: I think when I went to that Born Bad record shop, I wanted to pick up some records for the radio show that I was doing – I am doing – and I got some amazing recommendations.

Well, the first thing I went to the counter and, I was like, “je n’ai parlé pas français bien” and he was like, “yeah, all right.” I don’t even know if that’s the right way to say that, but I feel like that drives the point home pretty well.

Alex: My wife and I spent two weeks in Japan last summer. And by the end, one of her best friends is Japanese, and I said, by the end of the trip, I had invented a new Japanese word, which was a combination of, “I’m so sorry” and “excuse me” kind of mashed into one sound that I would just say constantly as I moved through Japan, because I was like, I’m just a bumbling foreigner trying to get through this wonderful country without making a fool of myself or embarrassing anybody.

Ryan: Oh, sometimes I have the awkward moment wher- I was in Portugal. And so I was greeting, in very what I thought was bad Portuguese, but apparently it was enough to think that. I was a native speaker because they kept trying to speak in Portuguese. I was like, I’m out. I’m tapping out. I can’t.

Alex: That’s a huge compliment though. Right? I mean, you, you’ve established the accent and the confidence for them to assume that he’s one of us.

Ryan: Or at least they were flattering me to make me think that I was

Alex: No, no, I think that’s- I would take that as a huge compliment.

Ryan: But it’s still kind of awkward. Like, “Oh, sorry. I gotta, gotta bow out.”

Oh man. Alright, I’ve got to ask because you have been- and this is getting drastically off topic. Well, it’s on topic enough. Some of the most amazing food that I’ve had while traveling was thanks to your recommendations. Kapsalon. Holy shit, life changing. I would buy a ticket to Amsterdam to go and eat Kapsalon and fly right back.

That is absolutely one of the best things I’ve ever eaten. The pastiche place that you recommended, starts with an M. We tried a bunch when we were in Lisbon and by far that one, the best, those savory doughnuts in Helsinki with the meat, my God. And we just- there’s a holiday market, like an offshoot of the Christmas market, down in the, I guess, main Harbor drag there, there was a little tent and a woman selling them and they’re hot. It was just like the perfect thing for a wet, cold night.

So do you have any favorite dishes or any food that just absolutely blew your mind that you’re just like, “I would travel to a place just for that and nothing else. I could go to a place and I could leave after having that and feel fulfilled.”

Alex: That is such a difficult question to answer. The one that immediately springs to mind because it actually influenced my behavior – we might have even featured it in the first Hong Kong episode. Hong Kong has roasted meats, barbecued meats is one of its kind of signature dishes. And there’s a place in Wan Chai, on Hong Kong Island, called Joy Hing Roasted Meats. And they do easily the best char siu, which is roasted, kind of barbecued pork with this sweet glaze on it. I will- I’m not ashamed to admit either of these things- I got to a point that when I was going to Hong Kong, I would book my hotels specifically based on their proximity to Joy Hing, like if I would pay more to be close and -so that’s the confession. Number one that remains to this day.

Ryan: I’ll do that too. Like when I’m planning a food place, where do I want to eat? All right. Where are the places? Where are the hotels?

And then book a hotel that’s in close proximity.

Alex: Even when we were just there to film the most recent episode, we stayed in Wan Chai because Joy Hing. I took my kids there quite a few years ago, and I said, “I’m just going to- I gotta go talk to the reception for a sec- there’s a thing with this- I gotta- I’ll be right back.” I ran downstairs and I went to Joy Hing and I got takeaway and I just ate it. And then I went back to the hotel room.

That’s when you know you’ve got a problem. But that’s the food that I would would fly to Hong Kong just to to have that. Just to have that wonderful Char sui, Joy Hing. Love it. I’m so ashamed of myself.

Ryan: Nothing to be ashamed of.

Sometimes you just got to do it when you’re there. You got to do it. Well, thank you so much for talking with me. Is there anything that you want to talk about that we didn’t kind of get to tying back to the concept of home or Jack Johnson or, and literally anything else?

Alex: Oh, well, you have to answer that question now.

I mean, you told me about the Kapsalon and stuff, but that’s, that’s quite a question. I’m going to ask my friends that too.

Ryan: I think it would have to be the Kapsalon. I mean, I’ve had mind-blowing food and Kapsalon is one that I would, yeah- also the Dutch know how to snack. Holy crap. Like Febos. I think you talked about Febo and yours, I think, just amazing snack food. Why is there not a Febo in every university?

Alex: Oh my God. I’ve never understood why we don’t have the Febo kind of, I think, what do they call- automats? that kind of hot food vending machine system. And I also don’t understand why we don’t have the kind of Japanese convenience store density, A) and quality, B), like the food that you get, irrespective of brand at the Japanese convenience stores, it’s not not an exaggeration. It’s not a myth. It’s a hundred percent real.

When my wife and I were there last year in Tokyo, our hotel was on top of a Lawson, which is one of the big chains, she was like, I don’t want to eat convenience- She’s from from California and so she’s thinking like, American 7-11, dirty water hot dogs. And I’m like “just trust me.” And then by the end of the trip, she couldn’t walk past one without ducking in and grabbing something out of A) deliciousness and B) morbid curiosity. So, yeah, those 2 things, I think would make the world a better place. As you say.

Ryan: Yeah, for sure. Oh, man, I’m getting hungry now. Just thinking about the question. I have fond memories of the hot dog in Copenhagen

Alex: Oh yeah. DØP. Isn’t it called DØP?

Ryan: Yeah, DØP.

Alex: My wife travels a lot by herself. She moved here like two and a half years ago and she’s been to 23 countries. Some with me, but she’s just a very intrepid traveler. But one of the things that she always does is food tours.

I mean, she does do historical tours. I shouldn’t throw her under the bus like that, but food tours, she says you get to learn about a city’s- what fuels the people, you can see kind of the history, the flavors and the traditions that they have while you’re walking through the city and seeing all of the other things and getting access and maybe cutting the line and all of that. We’ve obviously had mixed experience with food tours on the show, but from experiencing a city from a different angle, she swears by food tours.

Japan, I think was really good for us, having an expert on that. Not just from an etiquette thing, but also from a “I don’t know what the hell that is and it smells amazing. I’d love to ask- can you help?” We we’ve done a lot in Japan where we’ve leaned heavily on food experts too, and discovered some of our favorite dishes of all time there.

Ryan: Yeah. Yeah. It a really good way to, as you said, get to get to know kind of that flow. I also like- one thing, naturally, records, for me, but I like to go to a record store pretty early on if I can in a trip, because I find that’s a really good place to go figure out what’s going on. Are there any shows going on? What is kind of that culture, that vibe on that side of things? I find it’s a really good, good guide there too.

Alex: I can’t keep Greg away from record stores and camera shops. So, invariably, we’ll be filming and kind of bouncing between those two things and then coffee and-

Ryan: -all great ways to get, get to know a city.

Alex: Oh, a hundred percent. Absolutely. Yeah.

Ryan: Where are you going next? I guess. Can I ask?

Alex: Let’s see. Well my brothers, I have two younger brothers, and I, we’ve just been scheming to take a trip together, probably as part of an episode, in India. Our grandmother, she was a hundred years old. She just passed and we just thought it would be a nice pilgrimage ’cause she was born in India and lived there for a long time. And so we want to take the train from Delhi up to Shimla in the Highlands and kind of do a Darjeeling Limited kind of- So we’re just starting to put the wheels in motion for that.

Ryan: That’s awesome.

Alex: Yeah. That’ll be kind of fun.

Ryan: That’ll be super fun.

Alex: Yeah, yeah, I know. I’m excited. And we’ve got a bunch of Attaché stuff in the works too. It’s going to be a busy, busy year.

Ryan: That’s wonderful to hear. And people can of course find you on YouTube and Patreon and I’ll put all of the links in the show notes and all of that.

Definitely as you’re listening, please go subscribe to Attaché. It is seriously the best travel show that you can watch these days. I’ll go ahead and say that. You’re doing wonderful work and thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me.

It has been an absolute pleasure and I look forward to seeing more Attaché videos.

Alex: No, thanks so much. I’ve enjoyed every second of this. I really have. Thank you so much for including me.

Ryan: Cheers. Thank you for helping me make a mixtape.

Ryan: Most of my guests on the show are musicians and I usually play one of their songs at the end so you can hear a bit of what they sound like in action. I don’t have a song of Alex’s to play for you, but I think the introduction to the Hong Kong episode that we talked about provides a perfect sample of the tone and reverence that Attaché offers. I’ll embed the entire episode in the show transcript at letsmixtape.com or just go and subscribe to Attaché on YouTube and watch it there. And then watch another episode. And then another. Here it is, the intro to the second episode on Hong Kong: “Hong Kong – Is it Still Worth Visiting?”

Thanks to Alex for joining me for this episode and thanks to you for listening. If you enjoyed what you heard today be sure to feed the algorithm gods by rating and subscribing so that more people can find the show. Recording and editing was all me but the intro music is courtesy of Scotty Sandwich. Next week, I’m talking with Eno Williams of Ibibio Sound Machine.