Daniel Michalak

Episode

Playlist

Transcript

Daniel: Music is super important to everything I do in my life. I feel like it’s where I go when I want to emotionally unpack myself or express something about myself.

I’ve tried to have periods in my life where like, okay, I’m gonna see what happens if I don’t do any music, and I find myself very unhappy.

Ryan: My guest on the show today is Daniel Michalak of the bands Bombadil and Z Pocket. I first met Daniel in what must have been something like 2007 or 2008, which would have been the first time I saw Bombadil, at a now extinct BBQ restaurant placed weirdly off of Capital Boulevard just before you get into Downtown Raleigh. Their charm, their chops, their outfits, their whimsical, yet anchored music comprised of folk, rock, and pop elements won me over almost instantly.

They released some amazing albums, gained some momentum, faced some setbacks, persevered, and released more phenomenal albums, including one produced by season one guest John Vanderslice called Fences.

Bombadil is one of those key bands in that vibrant scene of the late 2000’s that I’ve mentioned a lot over the course of this season, which is one of many reasons I wanted to talk to Daniel. Another reason is because I wanted his perspective on this seasons prompt as he recently relocated from North Carolina to France; thusly turning Bombadil into a trans-Atlantic music project. Daniel also releases music as Z Pocket and put out a lovely album titled Music for A New World in February of this year. I’ll play a track from that record later on in the show, but first, let’s make a mixtape.

[Theme music by Scotty Sandwich]

Ryan: Daniel, thank you so much for joining me on this season of Let’s Make a Mixtape. We are of course talking about songs that remind us of home and you selected Esther Marisol‘s Morir Contando. Why did you pick this song and why does it remind you of home?

Daniel: That’s a good question. It’s just one of my favorite songs. If anybody asks me for a song, this is the one I give them. I live in France now, but before I lived in France, The country I had spent the most time in away from home was Bolivia.

And so when I left Bolivia, I guess it always feels like a second home. I’d spent long enough time there where I feel like I had roots and people that I- friendships I developed and just a love for the place. And so this is a Bolivian singer from the seventies. And I feel like this music encapsulates Bolivia and everything I love about it.

And so that’s why I chose this song. And I love the title. “I want to die singing.” I think it’s great. So being a musician, that rings true with me.

Ryan: Oh, thank you for that translation. I want to die singing. So you studied abroad in Bolivia, what brought you to Bolivia? What made you want to-

Daniel: Exactly, the university I was studying at had a program- I wanted to do Spanish. It was my, kind of my minor and this, and I wanted to go abroad, but never been outside the country and really wanted to live as far away as possible.

And I originally was going to go to Spain and there was a terrorist bombing of the metros in Madrid that summer. My parents said, you can’t go to Spain. So ended up going to South America and Bolivia. I don’t even think I realized that Bolivia was in South America necessarily at the time. So, just random, as how all good things in life work out.

Ryan: It sounds like you have a profound relationship now with Bolivia. What was it that- you went there kind of randomly, but what was it about Bolivia that really stuck with you?

Daniel: I think every country is special. So there’s nothing special about Bolivia. I could have had this experience- any person can have this experience anywhere. It’s more the Apocryphal? No, what is the word? Life step? Where you finally leave your home nest and go somewhere else for the first time. Become you where you’re not you. Someplace where no one knows you and you can finally break free of childhood chains or just be yourself with nobody else has any preconceived notion of who you were before.

But things that are awesome about Bolivia. I love Spanish. So it’s like, you can speak Spanish there. It’s one of the mountain countries in the Andes. So there’s just mountains everywhere. But the city is the highest capital city in the world, so the climate is super weird. It’s arid, but also it never rains. And so it should be hot, but it’s kind of cool. It’s like always in the sixties or seventies.

It’s also, even though it does have a huge colonial baggage with Spain, there are still strong indigenous cultures. So a lot of people speak two or three languages besides Spanish. Often at home, people speak either Aymara or Quechua, which are two indigenous languages.

The food there is super weird. It’s nothing like Central American or Mexican food. It’s not really spicy. They eat more kind of like dried llama meat and frozen potatoes. Or not frozen potatoes, but potatoes they kind of let rot in the ground for a long time. ‘Cause South America is really where the potato is from. So there’s a lot more variety of potatoes. There’s like these kind of black potatoes that eat, anyway, I’m a foodie so I like all the weird food down there.

And also the music was really awesome. I just like the music and Bolivia uses a charango, which is a 12 string instrument, kind of like a mandolin, but much awesomer.

There’s the pan flute. There’s also pan pipes, but then there’s also this long flute that’s called the Quena, I think. It’s been a long time since I’ve been there, but is amazing. And then I love this female vocalist. Maybe I just like- I heard a lot more female vocalists down there. The drums are super cool. They use these kind of like big drums. It is just kind of weird mix between marching drums, Spanish music, and also indigenous melodies. That’s super appealing to me.

Ryan: Did that really open up a lot of inspiration for you personally, musically?

Daniel: I guess so. We always say that was a starting point for Bombadil, ’cause Bryan [Rahija] was also down there with me at the time. Although I don’t feel like Bombadil music sounds anything like Bolivian music, but we really dug it at the time and still do. Still, it’s a special place in my heart.

Ryan: Esther Marisol was brand new to me and I very much enjoyed checking that track out.

Tying it back to home. So how do you define home?

Daniel: Good question. I took home, I guess when you asked the question, just as like a place I’d lived a long time because I think home can, of course, mean many things and where you’re born, where your family is, where you’ve lived the longest or where you’d maybe just feel the safest, or most at ease.

And so I don’t consider Bolivia home. I think if I would go back there, it’s not like anybody knows me or cares that I would be there. I think just a place that maybe you enjoy being, would be home and a place that feels good or has strong positive memories. And so Bolivia has all those things and this song reminds me of those good memories.

Ryan: Wonderful. And you mentioned that you’re living in France now. What has that been like? I mean, you’ve lived in North Carolina for a good amount of your life, correct? And then now you’re in France. What’s that transition been like for you?

Daniel: No, the transition was many things. That’s right. I lived in North Carolina my whole life until moving to France, except for this small stint in Bolivia.

I think I always dreamed of living abroad. So it was like a dream come true. My wife is French. The transition was done slowly. Every year we would come back at some point to see her family for the holidays. And so I still had a good grasp of the country before finally making the jump, which was kind of right before COVID. We finally moved.

COVID is maybe a weird time to move because everything- it’s not like I could really experience France. Everybody was kind of locked inside all the restaurants and stores were closed, can’t work or do anything.

So my first couple years in France were just inside my in-laws house. I don’t know. I feel like France or Europe is kind of a dream for maybe not all Americans, but for some, I love it. I love the climate. I love the culture. I love the food. I love where we are.

We’re in the countryside. It’s a lot more rural than Durham. It’s a lot of cows, tractors, people shooting guns. Maybe that’s kind of similar to Eastern North Carolina in that way.

Ryan: So given now that Bombadil is a trans-Atlantic band, how has that experience been?

Because you’ve done several tours in Europe as Bombadil. Did you tour before you moved, in Europe?

Daniel: We did. I was kind of in the transition. We kind of sold- I didn’t have a- yeah, we sold our house. And so I was kind of in transition for two years where I was kind of crashing at somebody’s house or my sister’s place in Durham, my wife had already moved back.

So I guess we had done tours in Europe before I moved while I was transitioning and after. That was another big goal of Bombadil, just all- maybe every musician, at least, ours was like “Got to go to Europe” and like Deep Purple in Tokyo, you know, I’m so happy that dream came true.

I don’t know if you want to do it, Ryan, if that’s dream of yours also, or-

Ryan: It’s a goal. It’s a goal. I’d like to get there.

Daniel: I recommend it. It’s amazing. But at the same time, it’s exactly like touring in the States. You’re just in some crappy club and nobody shows up. So, I don’t know. But it’s amazing also.

So, yeah, it’s exactly the same but very different.

Ryan: Have you, have you noticed any particular differences?

Daniel: Yeah the only differences are there’s like super old cool buildings, cobblestone, and really good espresso. But other than that, no. Sound boards are the same. Sound guys are the same, for better and worse in all the best ways.

Ryan: Do you feel like you’re becoming a part of the music scene where you are, or do you still feel kind of like an outsider, musically?

Daniel: Very, very slowly. I think even in the Triangle, I always feel like an outsider.

I never was someone that liked going to shows or liked- Or I always had a hard time, me and Stuart [Robinson], always calling ourselves musicians. I don’t know why I never liked that term. So I never felt like a- James [Phillips] is really good at that, in comparison. Loves just being kind of a social butterfly and being part of the scene and going out.

So I’ve had trouble being part of the scene or we’re kind of far away also from the city, where I would see shows, but no, I’ve been slowly doing shows here. I did a show actually last week, kind of a house show, and that was fun. So I’m slowly meeting people, but yeah, it’s-

Ryan: And that was as Z pocket?

Daniel: Yeah. So yeah, I like playing shows. I’m trying to do as many shows for anybody who will have us. I have show at a wine bar next month. I’m excited about that.

Ryan: Ooh, nice. You get some free wine there?

Daniel: I hope so. I hope so.

Ryan: So if you don’t like consider yourself a musician, do you have anything artistically that you identify with?

Or is it- it’s more like “I’m a human and I have expression.”

Daniel: Maybe artist is better, but same thing. They always just feel felt presumptuous. No. Is that the word I’m looking for too lofty or something?

Yeah, maybe just a human. Somebody that plays music ‘Cause I feel like there’s so many other facets of my person besides being a musician. Or maybe I didn’t identify with a lot of things that one thinks there’s a being. ‘Cause you always think a musician is someone who sleeps in late, or likes to just like drink, or it’s late. I don’t- I feel like there’s so many negative stereotypes of being a musician that I didn’t associate with, or also this idea that a musician is somebody has their head in the cloud. I don’t know. I’m not trying to hate on musicians either.

Ryan: Do you feel like pretentious? Is that kind of more-

Daniel: What’s the difference between pretentious and presumptuous and presumptuous? It’s someone that pretends pretentious is presumptuous, maybe? Are you good with English?

Ryan: No.

Daniel: No, me neither. Maybe it felt too pretentious to say I’m a musician or I’m an artist because I think artists- okay. Musician, I think Beethoven or an artist is someone that’s like a career for 30 years and has done something super compelling, not just kind of made like a three minute rock song in the key of C.

Ryan: But at the same time, you picked a song and you mentioned, the title of the song translated to English is “Die Singing” and you said you resonated with it. I guess, unpack that a little bit, if you don’t mind, why do you have that connection there too? Or how does that come about?

Daniel: Yeah. And that’s good. And I think a little bit sure for myself, I do like that. Music is super important to everything I do in my life. I feel like it’s where I go when I want to emotionally unpack myself or express something about myself.

I’ve tried to have periods in my life where like, okay, I’m gonna see what happens if I don’t do any music, and I find myself very unhappy, but I find myself attracted to, I think songs from the sixties and seventies, there was a lot of that kind of over the top sappiness to lyrics.

Like if you think of like the Four Tops or the stuff from Motown where it’s a lot of stuff’s about love, but sappy. So kind of see that also in this song, from Esther Marisol. I don’t think it’s just a love song about- I should have looked up the lyrics a little bit better because I’ve forgotten exactly what they say.

But yeah, just that dying, expressing her love by singing. Of course you’re not obviously gonna do that, but I like those, it’s got, yeah, sappy over the top lyrics.

Ryan: The sentiment of it’s music is this thing that you have in you and it needs to come out. And that’s, you know, you maybe not consider yourself a musician, but you maybe it doesn’t feel like- it’s just, it’s just so much of a part of you in general that it feels more natural than that?

Daniel: Yeah, maybe at this point now. It feels like just something I like doing and, or just need in life. I go by the piano, I just got to like play it for a second, but not that I’m good. I can’t sit down like Chris Thile or something, practice eight hours a day. Although I would like to have that skillset or dedication that I can’t do that either.

Ryan: I mean, still a very profound musician, Bombadil has been active for, man-

Daniel: We don’t even know. Since 2004 or 2005?

Ryan: Yeah. Cause I think we first- when we did a college radio- like I think I first saw you in like 2007 or something like that and y’all had been active for a while before that.

So it’s been a minute.

Daniel: And it’s always been a goal with James and I being the only two remaining members, I think the bands that we like the best are the ones that have these super long careers, like the Grateful Dead or what’s that band called? I feel like it’s got a name in Spanish also, and he likes a lot, but anyway, just the bands that have these long careers rather than a band that puts out one album that breaks up, ‘cuz they don’t along or something. It’s too easy to change band names, start over.

Ryan: Exactly. So talk a little bit about Z pocket. What makes a Z pocket song a Z pocket song versus bringing it to Bombadil or-

Daniel: Exactly the same. I’ve been writing songs for a long time and just over the past, maybe even five or 10 years, I was just writing more songs than Bombadil could get to.

I think at the beginning when there was four of us, we would write songs together, I guess this interview is just for me and you, it’s okay if I mention these names that nobody else knows?

I guess just when Bryan and Stuart had left the band, they were also big songwriters, part of Bombadil. The songwriting style of the band changed. And so it ended up kind of being just me writing a lot of the songs and that just didn’t feel-. ‘Cause at the beginning, James wasn’t really writing a lot and so it didn’t feel like a band anymore if it was just me writing.

So I stopped submitting my own personal songs to the band so that any new Bombadil song would be just be a creation of James and mine. Or at the time we were playing with a guy named Stacy, also. I think if you’re going to be in a band, it should be something collaborative.

And then just during the pandemic had lots of time. So just kept writing songs and I have a lot. I don’t know. I could do three or four more Z Pocket records. I gotta, I gotta put them out.

Ryan: And you’re performing as Z Pocket when you’re playing this upcoming wine bar gig?

Daniel: Yeah, that’s right.

So I have a friend that I play with, he does drums and kind of sings with me. I’d like to find more musicians, but it’s slow to find people. So right now I’m playing some Z Pocket stuff and Bombadil songs as well.

Ryan: And then I saw the most recent run that you were doing, was it interpretive dance element?

What inspired that collaboration there?

Daniel: Nothing is planned. Everything is random. The last couple of years, we’ve been playing with Stuart again and a new guitarist named MK Rodenberg, who’s also based in the Triangle. And we kind of set our separate ways. They didn’t really want to tour anymore with the same rhythm that James and I were doing.

And we got a fan reached out and said, “Hey, I want to do a project. I’m trying to get a grant from the North Carolina arts. I want to dance and to you guys music, make dance videos and dance.” And we said, “great, let’s do something together because we need another musician for tour.”

And this person, Madison, she said yes, and it’s been awesome. She doesn’t know how to play instruments and we don’t know how to dance. So we taught her how to play and she’s been teaching us how to dance. And so the tour this spring went great. And so now the goal is to do a record with her.

I was actually working on one of these songs right before you called me. We’re still kind of working out the theme or the art overall, how we’re going to put together this album, but she kind of wrote the story for the album. And James and I’ll write the lyrics and then I’ll write the music.

And she will compose dances and then we’ll kind of also write the songs to her dances. So we’ll have this kind of whole album that’s choreographed. I don’t know more than that, but something along those lines.

Ryan: Is that how you find yourself going into, in the past, going into a record as kind of a conceptualization of an idea and just kind of seeing what comes into it, or is it more traditionally more, is it a completely different approach to how you’re going into a record?

Daniel: I would say more completely different. Early Bombadil records were just like, we had no idea what we’re doing. We have these five songs or. I mean, for like Tarpits and Canyonlands, everyone always thinks, “Oh, you guys really planed this out, a big concept record.” Definitely not at all. And this is just all thrown together at the last minute in the most random way.

More recent records, yeah James and I have been having a great time digging into the idea of concept and theme. It’s much more rewarding, of course, having goals or ideas to follow and limits and boxes to put yourself in as much. It’s been much more interesting for us creatively. So this is just one more iteration further and maybe even do more extreme than we had done for the previous few records.

Ryan: Oh, that’s, that’s exciting. Do you have a timeline or is it kind of when it, when it happens?

Daniel: Supposedly we have to get it out before the next European tour, which is next fall. So we have a year, but, um, but I mean, usually records need to come out like a few months. You know, it takes a long time to get it out on vinyl or put it up on Spotify. So. I don’t know. Six to nine months. Fair.

Ryan: Is there anything, uh, that you want to touch on? Anything that you wanted to talk about or promote or any philosophical threads that you want to explore?

Daniel: Yeah. Those are all great questions. Let me think. If I’m not doing music most of the time, I’m just spending time in the garden. So I’ve been planning on a weird stuff.

Ryan: I, what, what, what are you planning? Are you a flower or a produce person or both?

Daniel: I used to be exclusively produce. I thought flowers are stupid, but now I’ve been really been getting into flowers. But still mostly produce. I have black chickpeas from Sicily that I planted.

Ryan: Is there a difference in flavor?

Daniel: I don’t know, I got them from this heirloom Italian seed bank. So we’ll see. And then where I live in France is really close to southern, Mediterranean France, but I’m kind of still in the mountains. So I have a much more temperate climate than North Carolina, so I have a lot of citrus. I have a Japanese yuzu, I have another early ripening kind of mandarin, I have an Australian citrus. So I’ve just been experimenting with a lot of hardy citrus that can withstand the mild alp winters that we have here. Other than that, Szechuan, I have a Szechuan pepper plant I’ve been excited about.

There’s so many cool things you can grow. I have a lot of artichoke. I I keep looking out the window to see if it will spark my brain on what I have out there. I have a tea plant. So that’s that’s what I think about a lot. I have Kiwi.

Ryan: Man, you got some great planting choices.

Daniel: You gotta come. If you decide you ever want to come to Europe, you should come.

Ryan: So where about, what’s the closest?

Daniel: We’re in between Lyon and Grenoble, the two biggest cities, southeast, kind of two hours from both Switzerland and Italy.

Ryan: Oh, lovely.

Daniel: Yep. And the Alps.

So, yeah, it’s very pretty.

Ryan: Do you feel like do you feel, do you feel at home in your garden?

Daniel: I feel at home in the garden, you know, I thought you were going to ask, and I realized just to circle- come full circle about where I feel at home at, and I also feel at home in France. I had this feeling for the first time when I went back to the U.S. for a tour this spring is that even though I’m really bad at French, because I’m here most of the year, I speak French most of the year. And so I felt uncomfortable speaking English and not- I mean North Carolina will always be home. But I have a few French friends actually live in the Triangle.

So I was happy when I finally got to see them and speak French again, even though I was in North Carolina, it’s funny how your brain can adapt to anything. And so obviously I’ve become adapted to France and feel more at home here.

Ryan: Lovely. That’s awesome.

Daniel: Yeah. It is nice to be able to feel at ease in a place.

[Transition Music]

Ryan: I’ve talked to so many European musicians throughout doing this and various other things, it seems like there’s a lot of state financing. So for German musicians, like they get some local and national, a lot of the Nordic countries have even more financial backing for musicians. Is that something that you see in France or are you able to see that as an expat?

Daniel: I don’t think it’s the same as Germany and the Nordic countries. I don’t know it’s as supported to the same level. There does exist in France, though, this – they call it a statute, musician statute – which I think is great. If you play a certain amount of shows per year, I don’t know, it’s maybe 40 shows? 40 to 60, I don’t know, somewhere 40 to 60.

And you got to make, I don’t know, maybe 250, just yourself personally per show. I don’t know how much it is. It’s 250 to 400. Then you get health insurance. You get a stipend also when you’re not doing shows, because most of the shows in France occurred during the kind of spring/summer festival time. There’s not really a lot going on November/December.

And so if you do that for a whole year, then the next year you’re guaranteed this have this guaranteed salary during your off season. So in some ways that that’s great. I have a friend, the drummer friend that I play with, he has that.

And he says, I mean, it’s taken him a long time. He’s 50 now. And he says it’s only really the last three or four years where he’s been able to work up to that level. But it’s just given a lot more time to spend time doing what musicians should be doing, you know, creating art. ‘Cause before that, you know, he had to teach on the side.

I’m not doing 40 shows in France. And so, and that’s one of the drawbacks I think, ’cause the shows have to be more legit here. There’s plenty of under the table stuff, but basically everything in the U.S. I mean, If somebody wants to pay you 50 a show and you want to take it, you can.

Here, if the bar only wants to pay you 50 bucks they can, and you can accept that. But if the bar gets controlled by the musician police, they will have to pay a hefty fine because they’re not paying you a minimum wage. And so for example, my friend also, he can’t play those under the table shows because everybody has to pay taxes. All shows have to be declared, I guess. I don’t know if I’m making sense, but because the market’s slightly more regulated, there’s less small bands playing out of the garages because venues don’t want to pay the minimum wage for a musician. Because, of course, if you’re a nobody band, you can’t bring in a hundred people to cover the ticket costs.

But at the same time, obviously, I still do shows. You can do those shows if you don’t care about getting this musician statute.

I’m throwing a lot at you that I don’t understand myself also completely.

Ryan: It’s more of a curiosity because I’m curious to which degree the governments support the artistic side of human life. And so getting different- clearly there’s, as you know, in the States, not really anything.

Daniel: But yeah, I can’t say it’s better or worse.

It’s just different. But no, I’m happy. There’s clubs here and you can find shows here. Get paid a hundred dollars and a couple of beers, or a hundred euros. I guess.

Ryan: Yeah. Same, same thing. Same thing

Daniel: Over here is that there’s just cool churches and old buildings.

Ryan: You a big fan of architecture?

Daniel: I think I just, yeah, I just like the medieval European buildings. I don’t know. No, I guess any building. I like any building that looks cool. It could be a new or old. Am I a fan of architecture? Maybe just more of a fan of beauty and I like weird stuff. So yeah, that includes buildings.

Ryan: Fan of beauty. I get fan of beauty and weird stuff. I dig that. That’s a perfect answer.

Daniel: I think, yeah, it could be, yeah. Europe’s got weird things over here.

Ryan: Awesome. Well, I’m so glad that you seem to have found home in France and I look forward to- I need, I need to make it out to a Bombadil show or a Z pocket show, either/or, the next time that you’re playing in the area. Thank you so much for chatting with me on this episode and it’s been great catching up with you.

Massive thanks to Daniel for chatting with. If you’re tuning in on the day this show is released and you’re on the East Coast, go check out a Bombadil show this week! They’ll be in Maryland tomorrow September 18th, followed by shows in Norfolk and Richmond Virginia, and, finally, Sanford North Carolina on Saturday September 21st as a part of the free Carolina Indie Fest.

As promised, here is a Z Pocket track from this year’s Music for A New World, titled “I Want to Kick It.” Enjoy!

Thank you for listening to Let’s Make A Mixtape. If you like what you hear, please subscribe and rate this show within your preferred podcasting service to help feed the algorithm gods and help the show get discovered by other fellow music nerds. This labor of love is recorded and edited by yours truly and the intro and transition music was written and recorded by Scotty Sandwich. Tune in to next week when I will be joined by Rudy Verbist of the Belgian band Gnome!