
Season One: Episode One
Metal singer, Karl Agell (Seizure, Corrosion of Conformity AKA C.O.C., Leadfoot, Lie Heavy, The Skull, Legion of Doom) joins Ryan to talk about his opening track selection: “Intro” by Bad Brains.
Listen on Spotify
Season One Playlist
Transcript
KARL: It’s still the happiest thing. Mm-hmm. Whether I’m on the stage or. Off the stage, just the way that I can connect with the universe. That’s just the absolute best. And it’s the same that part’s the same. Yeah. You know, it’s just things hurt more now, you know? But I’m still willing to do it.
[Theme Music]
Ryan: Welcome to Let’s Make a Mix Tape. For the first episode of Season One I sat down with my friend Karl Agell to talk about his opening track selection. You might know Karl from his time in the legendary Raleigh, North Carolina band, Corrosion of Conformity. He was the vocalist during the Blind album era, and he also got his start in the hardcore scene in a band called Seizure, which we’ll talk a bit about in the episode.
He then went on to form several other bands, including the fantastic rock band, Leadfoot and his current project Lie Heavy, which is another super group of sorts featuring members of The Backsliders, Confessor and some of the other guys from Leadfoot. It is fantastic. I’ve seen them live several times in the last couple months. They know what they’re doing and you should make a point to listen to them and to go check ’em out if they come to a town near you. They just released their first record Burn to the Moon, and it is glorious.
As this is the first episode, I should state that we’re not able to play the song selection because I don’t wanna piss off the copyright gods. But Karl has given me the “all clear” to play a track from Lie Heavy, so be sure to check that out at the end of the episode. You can hear this episode’s featured song, Karl’s selection “Intro” by Bad Brains on the Season One playlist, which lives on Spotify and YouTube, and is updated with each new episode.
So, be sure to follow along. You can find links to those playlists as well as a transcript of today’s show and show notes at letsmixtape.com (hey, you made it!). Thank you so much for listening. I am excited to kick off the season with Karl. So without further ado, let’s make a mixtape.
Ryan: You chose “Intro” by Bad Brains off of their album I Against I. Why did you pick “Intro?”
Karl: Because it’s called “Intro,” dude. Duh. No, it just- it made me- it was just so silly. Just- you said what could be the opening song? And it’s just this short, instrumental track that is literally the introduction to that brilliant record, and I feel kind of, a lot of people have different, albums they love by them, but somehow they were speaking to me at that point.
Ryan: So, so what makes it the, the perfect opener in your eyes?
Karl: It just sets things up like a good introduction does. It- I don’t know how to describe it, but it’s just dynamic. It’s got a lot of, it’s got pauses, it’s got air, it builds anticipation. What’s next? You know, it draws you in instantly. At least in my world.
Ryan: So do you prefer with albums the first track being kind of an element of mystery and setting the tone of what’s to come?
Karl: I think why not? Yes. That’s a good, that’s a good take on it.
Ryan: All right. Yeah. Bad Brains. Did you cross paths at all?
Karl: Yes, I’ve seen them before when I was part of the Connecticut hardcore scene going down to New York City with Seizure. Seizure, my band from ’83 to ’87, my first band essentially, and I mean, definitely my first band and they were just kind of, you know, the legends from DC, but I had the supreme honor of opening up for the original lineup, and it was, I think my third, fourth, fifth, and sixth show I’d ever played with C.O.C. before the Blind album even came out. It was the summer of ’89.
So we, I know we did Virginia Beach opening for them, the Roxy, down in Atlanta, Tennessee. We did Nashville and we did Charlotte at the 4808, I remember. It was just, it was really, really cool.
Ryan: Did you have any key memories from that experience?
Karl: I remember them almost not making the gig. There was some- the usual Bad Brains touring, wacky hijinks.
There was always some kind of issue going on, I think. And, the other band was Leeway on the bill from New York. So that was really cool. Those guys are awesome. And I just remember they ran late. I think it was the first show in Charlotte and everybody’s kind of freaking out, but then they showed up and made good.
Yeah. Oh, and Virginia Beach. That was a great show. Just watching the- you know the godfather, H.R., basically, one of the best front guys and amazing vocalists. But his performance, just him, that is so captivating, all eyes upon him. Just a complete and total badass; other-worldly.
I guess you know, the height, you could see them at CB’s (short for CBGB, the legendary rock club in NYC), he’d be doing a back flip and then keep singing, you know, that kind of thing. Just the sheer athleticism and fury, you know, that they used to bring, and then they flip the script and would go full blown reggae and then have some super reggae heavy sets that would upset a lot of hardcore kids. ’cause they’re like, oh, oh, why are they playing all the reggae stuff, you know? But that was their right to do that, you know? So, it was really cool. H.R. actually came to see us play during the C.O.C. Blind reunion stuff we did.
In 2015, I think he came out. In Baltimore. He showed up, so it was really, really cool to see him out there in the crowd. Very unexpected. So we were just blown away by that. So Reed and I were very, very happy.
Ryan: Do you keep in contact with some of the bands you were running with back in the day.
Karl: Our paths crossed occasionally. Sure, yeah. Yeah. There’s some people in the scene for sure, here and there, but no, not actively. I’d say that’d be a lie if I was actively on the phone with people or you know, texting or something, you know. But you know, we all know who we were and where we were. I think there’s still that mutual respect, I hope, and at least from my point of view. So I’m always excited to see that people are still going. It was a hell of a legacy for a lot of bands.
Ryan: What kind of brought you into that hardcore scene initially? What made you wanna start a band and play with Seizure?
Karl: I was another pissed off teenager, you know. I just moved to United States and, and when I was 15, I just turned 15 years old, two weeks before I set foot in New York City first and then just, well, point of point of entry or, you know, was living in Connecticut in Greenwich, specifically very preppy, uptight.
It was the height of the Reagan era, just kicking into gear, yuppie and preppy where the keywords back then. I know that’s ancient history for a lot of you people, look it up. But I was just this little disgruntled rock and roller and that I found kinship in, but I didn’t realize there was this amazing indie, hardcore punk scene in Stanford, Connecticut that operated out of a club called the Anthrax Gallery. And upstairs it was an art gallery and people that have their art and photos up there, and then poetry readings and whatnot, all kinds of stuff. And then you’d go downstairs to this illegal club, basically. Well, totally illegal, and see every mind blowing hardcore punk band, punk band, new wave band, whatever, coming through. You name it, European, U.S., any band you can think of came through there. It was mind blowing, five bands every Friday night, five bands every Saturday night.
And then it was only 45 minutes north of New York City. So we’d get on that Metro North train and ride down and catch CB’s matinees. And shows at the Rock Hotel. And Irving Plaza.
Ryan: You said you caught Bad Brains at CBs. Did you catch any other of those legendary groups playing CBs?
Karl: I’m not trying to sound like a jerk, it’s literally too many to list. I mean, you name it, I saw ’em there- and, C.O.C., my first show with C.O.C. in New York City was when I joined the band was there at CBs. And I’d actually played there with three other bands, so I played there with four different bands over the years, including even Leadfoot and obviously C.O.C., Seizure, and School of Violence, another band I was in. When we played there, at CBs, it was the return of C.O.C. and we were still- this is pre-Blind so we were still playing all the old tunes off of Animosity and Technocracy and even Eye for an Eye.
And it was such a highly anticipated show; the return of the band. ’cause the band had been quiet for about a year and a half. After Simon Bob left and that turned out- it was packed to the gills and it was became such a violent affair that they- it got so insane. With some really shitty skinhead stuff going on that we stopped the show three times. There was ambulances lined up outside.
Yeah, it just got really crazy. We didn’t finish our set. And there’s a picture of me back when, all these metal rags, Metal Maniacs was one of them, and they had these little inserts, the main cover piece and these little kind of photographic inserts for those of you who can imagine that maybe.
And I was on one of the little inserts, and you could see me standing there on stage surrounded by people. If you look in the background, right kind of behind me, in the depth of field, there was a kid with a chain wrapped around his hand coming down from the stage. And it’s in the picture.
And if you don’t look at it, you don’t see it right away. And I was like, yeah, it got really messy. And we’re like, okay, this is not fun anymore. It was amazing at first, and then it was just terrifying.
Ryan: Did you ever go back?
Karl: Oh yeah. We went back, but we also played a lot of other places in New York. I was lucky. I stepped into a ready-made thing, obviously with C.O.C.’s, built-in drawn, stuff like that. So, it was cool. I’ve played a lot of places in the city, but good old CBs. I don’t even know what it is now.
Ryan: Did you ever have any sort of feelings when you step on a stage that’s legendary? Did you ever have any sort of, emotional reaction or, do you still?
Karl: Oh, yeah. I mean, you never know what’s gonna-, at least, I never know what’s gonna make me feel- trigger that kind of feeling. But some of these monster stages, I just played with the Skull/Legion of Doom, Legion of Doom specifically, over there were just massive.
Hellfest and Graspop, specifically, and, you know, huge. It’s an arena stage and that’s just crazy. I have had that experience before with C.O.C. when we opened up for Iron Maiden too. We played Red Rocks, which is kind of mind blowing. It was the summer of ’92. It was awesome. Testament and Iron Maiden and just to ride those special four-wheel drive trucks up and they get dropped off and hike up there.
The kids camped out with the NORML banners back in the day, in the old olden days. And that stage, mind blowing, it’s, you’re up there in the Rockies, it’s unreal, you know? So I’ve had the good fortune of doing that, but there’s been a lot of- The Whisky was a great stage.
Sunset strip, you know? Whisky a Go Go. Whether it was, you The Germs or The Doors, whoever, whatever era. Minneapolis, First Ave. was always amazing. 7th St. Entry and First Avenue. Mind blowing famous stage, Prince used to play and I played there. I played there like three times I think.
[Transition Music]
Ryan: Circling back to Bad Brains. Do you revisit those records often?
Karl: I do. Yeah. That era of their first- the, the ROIR (Reachout International Records) cassette was the- Banned in D.C., that era. Essential hardcore boot camp kind of stuff to me, like must have in the kit, the desert island hardcore punk kit.
Ryan: Any others? Uh, any other desert records in the-
Karl: Oh, there’s tons. Damaged by Black Flag, for all the early kind of stuff. I guess just for me. Not disparaging anything current or less, you know, not from the original wave and there’s so much good stuff from all periods, but those are just essential. And I don’t know, there’s so many other things I like Discharge Hear Nothing, Say Nothing, See Nothing. That’s like the quintessential British punk rock assault.
Ryan: I ask these questions, but also if I was asked these questions, I don’t think I could- I feel like I put people in a very difficult position, you know, that I myself-
Karl: I think it’s fun to look back. I was very, very fortunate and obviously I wasn’t the only one. I was very lucky to be a part of some really amazing stuff that was going on. I just showed up and there it was, you know? And no better place for a 16 year-old.
And going back to the band thing, I was never planning to be in a band. I’d played harmonica and saxophone when I was younger. Chamber ensemble and jazz ensemble in Hong Kong. I had a Sumner knockoff alto sax my mom bought me that I still have. I think some people realize that my great-aunt gave me a Hohner harmonica in the key of C when I was 10 for my 10th birthday.
I think certain people kind of just always knew I was into stuff and should express myself. I was a pretty ripping harmonica player for a while when I was a tween. But anyway, I was just hanging out and then Jeff Coleman, the drummer of Seizure, approached me and said, Hey man, do, do you want to sing for our band?
I was like, “okay.” And the practice space was in the tiny, tiny basement of this, basically, shoebox of a house, a row house in Bridgeport, Connecticut, and we could barely fit in the little basement. And there was like a Fender Vibram amp with a headphone plugged into the jack and I sang into the headphone because it works as a microphone.
When you plug the quarter inch headphone jack in, there was no microphone. So I was screaming through that and the diaphragm- it actually works. Try that at home kids. I remember that clearly, like that was the first foray into it.
Ryan: In Hong Kong, what was the, what was the music scene like?
Karl: No scene to speak of. We had AM radio. We had a couple English stations. It was a British colony at the time. This is- I was there from ’71 to ’81, and it was basically, there was no scene whatsoever. I remember the only thing that came through is I saw The Osmonds, came through and Peter Pan, when we were little kids.
We went to that the year I moved, ’81 right after the Clash came through and played some disco in Hong Kong. I totally missed that though. I had two older sisters and one turned me on to [Led] Zeppelin, that was Charlotte, and then Anna, turned me on to the Clash and a bunch of new wave stuff and Elvis Costello and all that stuff that was happening at that time.
Ryan: But nothing hit the airwaves when you were there?
Karl: No. I had listened to the vinyl I would buy. In the Stanley Market. There was a little record store there in the middle of the marketplace where the chickens were running around and all that stuff. Famous open air market and this guy had the coolest little record store that had great stuff, but nothing came through.
I can only dream of that. I remember I won a record of my choosing on an AM call-in show. And I went in and they gave me a Silver Convention album which was super disco. And I was like, “oh gee, thanks.” And then they said to go pick it up at the record store and I traded in for Level Headed by Sweet.
“Love is like Oxygen” was on that album. I was kind of disappointed the rest of the album. It wasn’t that “rock,” but it was better than the Silver Convention. Check out Silver Convention, they don’t suck.
Ryan: Disco it feels like is having a little bit of a, not explicitly coming back, but a lot of elements seem to be coming back.
Karl: Stealing the rhythms. Yeah. Or, or, or you know, revisiting all that stuff. Well there’s some jamming stuff back then for sure. I was sent to summer school one year with my sister and, besides typing, I had to take disco dancing lessons. One summer school. And my sister, made me take it with her so she had a dancing partner.
Ryan: Do still have some of that muscle memory?
Karl: I had many moves. No, Actually I remember a couple. Sheesh, it’s insane. It was like 1978 or something like that.
Ryan: Dig back in the old memory bank and break out some disco-
Karl: Thankfully Anna bought me my first punk rock record, the first Clash album.
Ryan: Nice. They just erase that?
Karl: Yeah. Yeah. She, she was pardoned for her sins. Perfect.
Ryan: Did you ever incorporate your harmonica and or saxophone playing into any of your recordings?
Karl: There is an outtake on the Blind album of me fiddling around somewhere. But I don’t know where that is, but buried in the- somewhere. Then harmonica, we talked about it. Leadfoot, especially being the more rock and roll kind of vibe we talked about. It just never happened.
Ryan: Next, Lie Heavy Record.
Karl: Yeah, yeah. There you go.
Ryan: Throw some on there.
Karl: Yeah, exactly. I can tell Ron Holzer that Legion of Doom’s gonna open up with a big harmonica intro. In fact, I’m gonna do “Intro” by Bad Brains on harmonica.
Ryan: Perfect. Yeah. You heard it here first.
Ryan: In all of your various projects, your massive discography, any laboring over what track to open with? How much time did you devote to deciding which songs to open the Leadfoot records with and and Lie Heavy, and-
Karl: I’ve always agonized over that. Yeah. In a good way. I’ve sequenced every record I’ve been on. I can say that. Even Blind. I sequenced no one could argue that point if they were just “lie detector time.” Whatever. I’m not saying- but it was really important for me. I mean, I wasn’t saying like I wrote- I said it and it was the law, but I made my case. And my case, which decided to be a good case, a good decision, ’cause I think an album is a narrative that has to have attack, sustain all that, however you wanna look at it. But it has to, it begins somewhere.
I like the idea of the journey and then some kind of finish or- I’m not saying it has to be a perfect conclusion, but I like the idea of a flow, kind of like a good set list. That’s really what it is. And I know we live in the age of singles and I guess people did live in the age of singles a long time ago as well, so it’s not that anything new,
Ryan: But it’s an album genre
Karl: but an album genre is, that’s what we’re in, I like to look at it that way. Everybody’s in agreement with me there, I think. And we went to some pains with the Lie Heavy album’s most recent effort on that front. To make it flow well, I think.
Ryan: Yeah. Yeah, it does.
Karl: And every Leadfoot album was like that too. And even the Blind record and the Seizure EP. Had control over that too. School of Violence, I don’t think I had any say on that. Maybe I did. I might’ve, I dunno.
Ryan: Do you have a different- as far as picking what song goes first on a record versus what song you play live in a set list. Do you have any different thought camps there? Yes.
Karl: Yes. Because the reality of it is, and you know this, is sometimes what can happen in a matter of sequencing digital ones and zeros and all that, is very difficult to pull off live. And sometimes you just-, oh my God, I can’t go into that one because I’m, my fingers will fall off or I’ll blow my voice out. Or, you know what I mean? The ebb and flow so, it can be done, but sometimes, you have to do it differently. And then also there’s other material that might not be on the album. You wanna stick it in somewhere and- we actually do open the show with , the same track as of right now.
“Nothing to Steal” is always the opener, but everything else kind of is different from that point on. So just depends. And also I think too, with the album thing- Live it’s different in the sense you want a slightly different narrative, I think because you’re there in the room interacting and breathing the same air.
And I feel like I could manage expectations and do stuff differently with something that’s just kind of finished product that I’ve- When it’s just out there and it’s by itself in the world and has, has to be kind of just sent out in a certain state, I think.
Ryan: So you’re saying you read the room and adjust accordingly from there?
Karl: Yeah, I do. Unless, something’s going terribly wrong. Obviously we stop something, you know? I think that’s the whole thing is you can make things work just by being present. I mean, that’s also the kind of music we play, right? But any music shouldn’t matter. You know, if you’re busking with a harmonica on the street or something, read the room, baby! Read the street. You know?
Ryan: That’s good advice. Anything that we haven’t touched on that you wanna talk about or you wanna shout out or you wanna circle back to about opening tracks or Bad Brains?
Karl: Oh I don’t know. I’m real good at rambling. I can probably go on and on about it. Everything and nothing.
Ryan: I mean, there’s there’s only one planned question for this show and it’s “why’d you pick the song” and then wherever we go, it’s out of my control.
Karl: Going back to that song, I just think it’s- for me was such a happy powerful place of- I know people could argue earlier records by them and this and all that, but just for me, something about when I first put that on and heard them and I was like, anticipating, what are they gonna do now?
And they did that and it just, it’s just such a cool setup and it was such a, for me, really interesting, cool period of of time in the scene of bands. And, and it was sort of a cool pinnacle. At least for them. I see it that way. They had other stuff too and they had some questionable things that they pulled to as individuals. Politically and all that stuff. I don’t wanna get into all that, but just from a pure musical perspective. Yeah. I just, I don’t know. It’s just such a cool moment. I mean, they
Ryan: I mean, they had such an impact on the scene, on the sound, you can’t negate their legacy and musical contributions by any means.
Karl: And so many bands are super complicated. I’ve been in a couple of those. Yeah so what, what are you gonna do, man? But super cool moment in time for me.
Ryan: That’s so cool that you got to be not just witness it, but also be a-
Karl: I was very lucky a part of it too. Absolutely. Super lucky on that front. Part of it too, and like anything else in life, is making it happen. So I feel like, hey, I could’ve just not been into that kinda shit, but I have the good fortune of of having people that brought me in and it was the most amazing scene back then and beyond even the Connecticut scene, which was just family. And I’m still in touch with so many of those people.
It was just a very cool place for a frustrated teenager that was mad at the world to be. And instead of committing crimes and or hurting myself and or others I was able to channel that despair and aggression and rage and joy and everything into a pretty cool place with a lot of other people feeling the same thing.
Ryan: I love that. The communion of that is so special.
Karl: That’s beyond the punk hardcore thing. That’s music, man. That’s the best.
Ryan: Amen.
Karl: That’s right. Amen. That’s our religion.
Ryan: “Music is the best,” to quote Frank Zappa.
Karl: Yeah, exactly. It’s the best.
Ryan: Do you notice any stark differences between- I’m gonna use “this scene,” but, in a more broad sense of “doing the thing,” going out and playing shows and interacting with people at shows and seeing shows -any stark differences, good or bad, that you see then versus now doing the thing.
Karl: It’s totally different. It’s totally the same. You know what I mean? I’m older, a lot older, literally still going to shows 40 years later. I said it out loud, or longer, you know, I got an early start and it’s still the happiest thing. Whether I’m on the stage or off the stage, it’s just the way that I can connect with the universe. That’s just the absolute best. And it’s the same.
That part’s the same. It’s just things, hurt more now. But I’m still willing to do it, you know? I think it’s kept me younger than most, in that sense. It’s like if it’s too, you’re too old. That kind of bullshit aphorism or whatever, but you know, it’s kind of true. Something to it. You can’t hack it anymore than maybe you can’t hack anymore. Deaf and proud.
Ryan: But at least, you know, being a bass player, I can I can feel the sound, which is nice. Even when I’ve completely blown out my eardrums, I’ll still just sit on my bass cab and feel the vibrations.
Karl: Yeah. I say “what” a lot more now
Ryan: What?
Karl: Exactly, exactly. Poor, poor, other people around me.
Ryan: I have to put subtitles on for so many reasons.
Karl: Post captioning is where it’s at, man. Everything’s like a foreign movie. The whole world is a foreign movie.
Ryan: Yeah. I wish life came with with captions.
Karl: Oh yeah. That’d be great.
Ryan: Well, Karl, thank you so much for talking with me.
Karl: Thank you. This is awesome.
Ryan: Thanks for helping me make a mixtape.
Karl: Yeah, man, pleasure talking with you. Thank you for letting me ramble on. I appreciate it very much. Thank you so much.
Ryan: Literally, anytime.
Karl: Look forward to it again.
Ryan: Massive thanks to Karl for those wonderful stories, and I wanna share with you some of Karl’s wonderful music.
As promised, here is a track from the brand new Lie heavy record Burn to the Moon, which is out wherever you get your music. This is “Drag the World.”
[“Drag The World” by Lie Heavy plays]
Ryan: Thanks for tuning in. If you enjoyed the show, be sure to subscribe and write a review within your favorite podcast service to feed those algorithm gods show notes and transcript can be found at letsmixtape.com and wherever you get your social media, you can follow us @letsmixtape. Theme music for the show was composed by the one and only Scotty Sandwich.
Tune in next week as I discuss opening tracks with my bandmate in Doomsday Profit, Bryan Reed.